Interview Of The Defence Minister Of Republic Of Macedonia, D-R Vlado Buckovski For The Daily Newspaper "Dnevnik"

Interview Of The Defence Minister Of Republic Of Macedonia, D-R Vlado Buckovski
for the daily newspaper "Dnevnik" from 9 November 2002

Vlado Buckovski is the new Minister of Defence in the Government of the Prime Minister Branko Crvenkovski. In fact, he has put on his "old shoes", the ones he was "wearing" during the military crisis in the country. He was appointed minister of defence last year, in the moment when it was the most difficult to be in that position, not just because of the military actions, the refugees, and the terrorist attacks, but because of the "mortgage" he had inherited from his predecessor regarding the scandal with the procurements. One of the first working assignments of the Minister Buckovski is the question concerning the future NATO mission in the country.

You have already expressed your standpoint that after December 15, international military presence, especially NATO’s presence in the country, is needed. Why NATO, when all the opinion polls say that people give greater support to the EU. Does it mean that you have given up from the EU forces definitely, and when would you inform NATO about this decision?

The statement I gave after the consultative meeting with the President of the state was just an initial assessment that we need international military presence after December 15. At that meeting, we have not opened the question of the type of forces Macedonia is interested in, because, after all, though everybody say that the decision should be brought here, what is going on in Brussels must be respected as well. In spite of the fact that until 10 days ago seemed certain that after December 15, as a replacement for NATO, we will admit the EU forces in Macedonia, it turned out that the EU forces are not prepared yet, and according to the latest information it would take 6-7 weeks more to define their status.

Therefore, there is a variant that is openly discussed in the diplomatic circles, regarding the continuation of the NATO mission in Macedonia after December 15, but as a new mission with a number of soldiers doubly reduced, and with a different mandate. At this point, the key question is the Government’s decision whether international military forces after December 15 are needed. I expect that that decision would be officialized next week. And afterwards, in consultation with Brussels, NATO and EU, it would be defined who is prepared to begin and who would end the mission at this point in time.

Would it be definitely the last mandate of the international forces, or we could expect a new one?

We wish that this would be the last mandate of the international military forces in the country, because in that way, we would express our readiness to guarantee the stability and security of our country by ourselves. I think that it would be perfect if the mission would finish somewhere by the end of May or June, so that in 2004, we would receive the invitation for NATO membership, and by completion of the whole procedure in 2006 we would realize our ambitions.

Will the Government demand a new mandate, or the President will do it, as it was the case so far?

The Government would make the demand. The President was always a reserve variant when Georgievski and VMRO-DPMNE wanted to avoid the obligation that the Government was supposed to undertake.

All the NATO aspirant-countries have already delivered the Action Plan for Membership for this year, except for Macedonia. The last draft that was sent to Brussels was assessed there as a real disaster. Until when will NATO wait for the Action Plan for Membership?

Because of the vacuum which was created from the election day until the undertaking of the authorities by the new Government, there was an unnecessary postponement with the putting forth of the Action Plan draft which was send at the end of October. It has been already reviewed and part of the suggestions arrives in the Defence Ministry and in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, as most responsible in the process of preparation of this plan. Expert teams from the two ministries work on the improvement of the text. I am convinced that we would have much better text in the course of the next few days. There is an understanding in Brussels about the vacuum that occurred in our country.

We have a new Defence Law, which was criticized for not being civic enough. The reforms in the ARM depend on this Law. Could we expect strong civic control over the Army and the army structures according to the western standards?

The Defence Law is not an obstacle for the reinforced transformation of the ARM. The restructuring is conducted according to the foreseen schedule. I am satisfied from what we came across as a condition in the transformation, but we are approaching towards the key phase when the reform should be reinforced. NATO would have a set team consisted of four people who would work with our experts in completing of this process of transformation, which by our assessments, could successfully terminate by 2007. This means that we should fulfill all the criteria and predictions regarding the creation of a small and effective army which would respond to all the security challenges, and would be compatible with the NATO standards.

In the framework of that transformation is the forming of the border police, created by the West European model. The previous Government and the Interior Minister were announcing the inclusion of the "Lions" in that unit. Would it be one of the ways of the new Government for releasing of the negative energy created from the controversies with this unit?

I would not like to prejudice how would the resolving of the open question for the status of the special police unit "Lions" end up. But the initial conclusion is that there is a need of their transformation. Whether the border battalion would be the valve for exhausting that negative energy, the time will show. But, as some from the previous government imagined, that the "Lions" could replace the members of the army on the part of the border with Kosovo, is wrong approach. It is not possible that the ones who were pointed by the ethnical Albanian citizens as mistrustful forces to be placed at even more sensitive points. I do not see a possibility of transforming part of "the Lions" in the Army, except if we reaffirm the idea of having joint special units of the army and the police, called anti-terrorist units. Such forces fit in the general determination for having a mobile army, ready to react immediately to all the problems that occur.

Some media wrote that you would "soften" quickly regarding the issue with the "suhoi" airplanes, for which the Americans said that we did not need. However, there are some serious commentaries about the number of the tanks. Do you have any personal recommendations to the American experts?

The question regarding the tanks would be much easily resolved since our assessment, and the assessment of the NATO experts say that we need modernizing of the tank units. "T-55" tanks, slowly but surely must be replaced with more modern tanks. We already have a "T-72" tank unit procured last year, whose procurement was possible with NATO agreement at a very critical moment from a security aspect. Our obligation for the following year for resolving the problem with the "T-55" tanks remains, which means that we should sell them.

I expect that we would have a greater problem in the public regarding the destiny of the "suhoi" planes. I leave that question open, but my personal standpoint is that in the next two years, until the situation in Republic of Macedonia is entirely stabilized and until the status of Kosovo is resolved, "suhoi" planes should be part of Macedonia’s force.

Your party, and you yourself pledged, i.e. seriously declared that the collecting of the illegal weaponry in Macedonia is priority. This has not been done on the Balkans yet, but there are positive examples in Western Europe. What model would you apply?

We have a clearly expressed intention that one of the priorities of the new Government is regaining of the peace and the security on the whole territory of Republic of Macedonia. The prognoses are that there are hundreds of peaces of illegal weaponry. More specifically, the most pessimistic variant is that there are from 100.000 to 400.000 peaces and we are prepared to cope with this problem. The principle on which would this action be organized, and which cannot be completed in one round but would be a long-term process, means that the weapons would be returned voluntarily. It indicates that anyone who would voluntarily return the weapon would have some privileges, i.e. he would not answer according to the Article of the Penal Law for possessing illegal weaponry. Parallel with the passing of the new law, there would be some changes in the Penal Law where after the expiring of the dead line for voluntary hand over of the weapons, the punishments would be increased. There would be rigorous punishments as a motif plus for the citizens to return the weapons. There would not be any financial resources, and the returning would not be stimulated, as some imagined, in a way which the Albanians wanted, who are the main sources of the such quantity of weaponry present in this region. I expect that the international community and the members of the new NATO mission would be included in this process. Also, the help which could be used from the funds of the Stability Pact, could additionally stimulate the citizens to return the weapon. I have demanded from the EU representative Alexis Bruns that the EU should be included in the operation as well. He opened the possibility that it should be reconsidered that the part of the resources the EU has for reconstruction and building of infrastructure objects, should be directed in places and inhabited areas with significant importance for returning of the illegal weaponry. According to my assessment, the action should begin in spring because if the Act passes in the Parliament before New Year, we should have favorable weather conditions, and in agreement with the draft law it would last 30 i.e. 45 days.

How prepared is DUI to assist in the realization of this project?

The key question is what would be their role. I expect that they would give maximal contribution in it. There is a mood and sense from the field that there is a tendency among the Albanians from the crises regions demand more and more presence of the police and resolving of the problem concerning the violations of the public order and peace. There are daily signals from the critical areas for usage of firearms and fire by will which create unrest among the citizens.

There was firing during the celebration of your election victory.

Unfortunately, this is true, although the information say that it was a case of provocation. Those were not our members and supporters, but someone in some way tried to ruin our celebration.